Stealth/Archer vs Stealth/Assasin

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Stealth/Archer vs Stealth/Assasin

Postby AshOfCaine » Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:15 pm

Okay, I always hear how ninja stealth archers are so feared and began building one, but now I am torn between if I want an archer or if I want a fencer with poison.

The template I was building is:
Ninja 115
archery 115
Tactics 100
Hiding 100
Stealth 80.1
Healing 90
Anatomy 65
Chiv 65

Chiv for divine fury and consecrete weapon, healing/anatomy enough to cure poison.

Now, I am thinking of loading up on +skill equipment and swapping fencing for the archery and adding 80 poisoning. (weapons are not like magery and don't require 200 poison/weapon)
I actually have enough +skill equipment to add the 80 poisoning (my first doom arty was shadow dancer leggings :wink: plus have ring & bracelet with +18 skills each (2 different skills) but would search for some with better secondary mods.

So which would be better for PvP, ninja/stealth/archer or ninja/stealth/fencer that can deadly & lethal poison? Either way I have to fill out the rest of my suit with LMC and MR.

But what got me thinking about fencing/poisoning was actually PvM, the orange key room in the citadel. Using combination of infectious strike and shadow strike should be able to take out the spawn and not have too much trouble, even better when use parasitic poison so I get healed from the spawn. So if nothing else, may just get a couple of soul stones and switch between archery and fencing depending on where I go. Just don't see what makes a stealth archer so much better than a stealth dexer.
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Postby Tracy » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:32 pm

for pvp it's archers all the way.

As a dexxer, good luck getting any red mage to stand still while you run up to poison him.
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Postby AshOfCaine » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:38 pm

Well, I went ahead and decided to get the equipment I needed to add poison. It is interesting seeing 824.4 on my skills list. I am disappointed the jewelry is lacking lmc or DCI/HCI. I had to drop anat to 61 and healing to 80, but with enhanced aides should be able to still cure. I have to find a +12 ninja + 6 or more archery, then can switch freely between fencing and archery. But i do link the +stats so should be able to get 140+ dex (160 with potion). Need a decent neck armor with lmc/mr, then it is on to shopping for weapons.

as far as pvp, not even sure i will get into pvp with this char. If stealthing up to attack the red mages isn't going to work worth a darn then I can soul stone the archery back on. Without resist on this char he isn't going to be visible long. Haven't tried death strike before, would it be good to stealth up death strike, infectious strike, but if they run toss a shuriken at them.
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Postby AshOfCaine » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:02 am

Well, I built the template using fencing from another char and poison from another char (got to love soul stones). Tested out, and seems to be high chance of lethal poison from infectous strike. Took a Tsuki wolf down to 25% health before it wore off.

So, I take the char down to the Citadel to try it out against the mages that guard the orange key. Get the lethal strike off and it cures itself in a second flat. So without resist, and poison useless, it falls apart at this point. So, unless I make a macro, to shadow strike, attack last target (since shadow strike hides and goes out of war mode). So, PvM atleast poisoning only going to be useful on non-mage chars. I could have sworn lethal poison wasn't cureable, so those suckers must have high magery.

Also didn't take into count the karma loss from using infectous strike, you don't get one for throwing poisoned shurikens.
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Postby Tracy » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:18 am

AshOfCaine wrote:But i do link the +stats so should be able to get 140+ dex (160 with potion)


Stats (str/dex/int) are capped at 150, regardless of items or potions.
Hard cap for the real stats are at 125.

Stamina can be higher, which affects your swing rate, but dex (which determines bandaging speed) is capped at 150. So 140 is your max bandage rate at 1 bandage per 4 seconds.

AshOfCaine wrote:I could have sworn lethal poison wasn't cureable, so those suckers must have high magery.


Actually, lethal poison is curable by bandages, magery, chivalry or potions.

Potions you might have to try 2-4 times, magery you might have to try twice even with arch cure, chiv just requires high karma. With 115 healing, 115 anat you can cure lethal poison 100% of the time with bandages.

Chiv is the fastest (what's not to love about 4/6 casting?) and bandages are the surest. Mages do well with 120/120, but not everyone has that luxury.

There is no such thing as an incurable poison, or else everyone would use it, or everyone would have necros to spirit speak through the damage (since it actually gives you hp back even if you're poisoned).
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Postby AshOfCaine » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:41 am

I have been hit several times with deadly poison that Chiv took 3-4 casts to cure and my karma is so high i don't gain any more on anything, skill lvl 80ish. On stratics it list the chance to cure is actually skill based and that high karma lessens the fire damage you take for using it.

Cures the target of poisons, but causes the caster to be burned by fire damage for 13-55 hit points. The amount of fire damage is lessened if the caster has high Karma.
The chance of successfully curing is calculated with the following formula:
% Chance to cure = (Chivalry Skill * 0,75) + (100 - (poison level * 20))


I went back and managed to survive taking on 2 of the spawn, but see there is no way for me to quickly clear the room, especially since 2 or more spawn even when room isn't triggered.

So basically I just built up a char that is only good in PvM against mid-level non mage monsters. Although he was a lot of fun to play, just not powerful enough. If want to use it for PvP then archery goes back on and suit gets overhauled.

So looks like the only way I am going to be able to farm that orange key is take music/peace off of my tamer and put hiding/stealth on. I was able to use invis spell with the peace/tamer before to get 1 key, so could use provoke/tamer, but looking like popular choice is stealth/tamer.

I needed to take fencing off my pally to put swords on anyway, so isn't a total waste of time.
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Postby Tracy » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:55 am

Ah yeah, I completely forgot the formula for that. And I generally run about 90ish chiv, but it doesn't seem to take more than 2 casts ever, even for lethal poison.

That seems odd to me. But you're right about the formula, I completely forgot about that.
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Postby AshOfCaine » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:45 am

So with 4/6 casting and 90 chiv, do you use healing in your template? Wanting to remove healing from my Pally to free up some points but I am so addicted to bandages, usually cause hard for me to get a decent lmc/mr suit. Finally got a 34% LMC 6 MR 60's or better resist suit that currently 3 chars are sharing, and is working good if i have a 50% or better mana leech weapon, but I think my pally is running 2/5 casting or might only be 1/5. Just went to test shard and played around with 3/6 casting as a pally in wraith form and if I can get to 4/6 and maintain LMC and DCI I might be able to for see ditching healing.

Now, back to the original question, you just said for pvp it's archers all the way but only inferred one reason being don't have to get close to red mages. So, is ranged attacks the only reason? I know on my archer, my heavy x-bow with moving shot has deterred so would be attackers from following me too far since 2 shots could red line them. But that wouldn't do much good on a stealth char since I won't be mounted and will either be easy to run down in a chase or in animal form in which case couldn't use any special attacks. So what makes stealth and archery so good? What tactic or strategy would be used?

I can see since being stealthing, will be on foot so using Heavy X-Bow for dismount from stealth would be good way to get target on foot. But would either have to chase them down on foot to use moving shot, or go into animal form (bake or wolf I believe both add movement speed and hit chance) catch up to them, stop, shoot, and chase some more. I can see benefit of doing that is catching them and stopping could take a couple seconds, so could use heavy hitting slow heavy x-bow for maximum damage. I have seen my current heavy x-bow can take someone down in 3 shots (assuming all 3 hit), so dismount plus 2 hits chasing.

So that is only strategy I can see, stealth to dismount, animal form to bake, chase/stop and shoot and repeat until one of us is dead, then hide or smoke bomb to return to the shadows. With my reliance on healing/anatomy I couldn't fit spirit speak on template to follow ghost for rez kills. As mentioned above, would only be able to ditch healing/anat with 90 chiv and 4/6 casting. If I could get the equipment I would think about this template:

Ninja 115
Archery 115
Tactics 100
Hiding 100
Stealth 80.1 (starting to disbelieve what I had read that this is all I would need on how many times I was revealed in citadel and labrynth even in rat mode so running 100.1 stealth)
Spirit Speak 100
Chivalry 90
Only leaves 19.9 skill points, if had equipment for 4/6 with 30 focus i would put 40 into focus, if not either take stealth up to 100 or increase chiv or tactics (unless I stumble across some 120 scrolls for ninja/archery)

But would need minimum of 4/6 casting, 40% DCI, 40% HCI, 30% LMC and 6 MR. Don't know how expensive or hard that suit would be to put together with 60-70 resist.

So assuming i get lucky enough to get the equipment, would that template work well in Fel, and would there be any other strategy from what I already observed? I can really see stealth/archers being extrememly deadly in packs. Focus on one target, one dismounts and one or more attack from the shadows using armor ignore = one dead red. More concerned on what I would need to do solo.
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Postby Damien Kilcannon » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:42 pm

well in the citadel they have the ninjas and they will reveal you no matter what your stealthing is I believe...
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Postby AshOfCaine » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:40 pm

well in the citadel they have the ninjas and they will reveal you no matter what your stealthing is I believe...


Dunno, still trying to figure out how I got revealed in the labrynth. Sitting there minding my own business getting cocky cause I am in rat form so have 100.1. I been doing the quest with the minotaur artifacts, so I was just walking around picking them up and next thing I know I have to run and hide again.

Off topic, I know you Uber gear guys think the strongbox quests are all junk, but I gotten some nice jewelry and talismans for my crafter that way, even a decent mana/stamina leech UBWS sword. If I get really bored I may start doing 'quest in a bag' bags for new guildsmates. With this quest all you need in the bag is a fragment of map, 20 gaman horns and 3 minotaur artifacts and instructions on who to talk to in Heartwood.

It is boring collecting the 20 gaman horns, but have a swordsman in training so just went and collected a hundred. And I enjoy collecting the fragments of map, hate those red healers kill everyone I see. :twisted:
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Postby Atta Kquast » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:27 pm

Ash, agreed on the strongbox quests...I prefer the less tedious ones, but that one is still good. I can show you the one I like the next time you/I are on.
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Postby AshOfCaine » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:44 pm

I can show you the one I like the next time you/I are on.


Tease! Couldn't just tell me. :evil:

I am still trying to complete one called 'New Leadership' where you have to kill 3 people in Citadel. I have 2 done, but even though it just says 'Dragon Flame Mage' I have killed dozens and none have filled that part of the quest. I am begining to feel only the grandmaster mage in the orange key room will fill that quest, and that ain't happening too easy on my pally.

But looking at a list of strongbox quests I can only guess you referring to one from Sanctuary where have to kill 3 named monsters. There is another to kill Guile, Irk and Sprite but only been able to do that on my tamer.

Never even been to sanctuary so I don't know how hard that would be or which char i would need to use.

Edit: Ok I just researched the sanctuary quest and found a video of someone that kills all 3 named monsters in probably less than 2 minutes. It was impressive and shows this person has done this countless times, but I was happy to see his char was a pally/samurai which is the char I just built for something like this.
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Postby Atta Kquast » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:54 pm

8) yupper. got this ring tonite... hci 14/dci15 luck 90 fire resist 15%. just what my doom char needed.

hope to see you fighting with me there soon! and ya it takes 2-5min per round for me as a parry/mage. peacer/mage is faster. but yours should rock as well.
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Postby AshOfCaine » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:31 pm

http://www.dailymotion.com/tag/Szavetra

Here is the Url I told you about with videos of guys running the sanctuary quest in just a couple minutes.
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